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“If Ronnie had a shoe store, I’d be out there selling shoes.” But she really doesn’t understand politics very well. All she knows is that she needs to keep an eye on everyone around him. At first, Stu Spencer and some of the other political advisors — first of all, back in those days, a politician’s spouse was almost always a woman, and the male handlers around him thought her job was to just look good and show up and say whatever she was told to say. But Nancy is constantly giving them advice. The advice is not always welcome. She has a very difficult eight years in Sacramento as she’s kind of learning the new world in which they find themselves. But you really do begin to see her get a lot shrewder, a lot more sophisticated about how to use her power, how to make her will known, how to do it, quite frankly, without leaving fingerprints. MR. DUFFY: You write in the years in Sacramento, she begins to take on an almost semi-official role as a kind of staff enforcer. As a lot of political spouses we have seen, they tend to be a little shrewder and more skeptical about the people around their partner than sometimes the principal, him- or herself. MS. TUMULTY: And, in fact, it was not welcome. She makes a great ally during those years, Michael Deaver, who bigfoot hawaiian shirt would later be deputy chief of what — staff in the White House, but when they assign Michael Deaver to deal with her, just to keep her out of the hair of Ed Meese, the chief of staff, this is dubbed — his portfolio is dubbed “The Mommy Watch.

MR. DUFFY: Right. And this is a role she would continue to play as they reached the White House, and we should talk about that now. A lot of folks covering that White House at the time and covering the East Wing, as it’s sometimes called, we were obsessed and often distracted by all of the controversies surrounding her clothes, her Hollywood friends, the dishes, but she was building a power center inside the White House that was second to none. And that seemed to come out most clearly, first of all, in the administration’s efforts to end or at least turn a corner on the Cold War. MS. TUMULTY: That’s correct. And I opened the book, in fact, with a scene where George Shultz, relatively new as the Secretary of State, is invited over to a private dinner, two couples, in the middle of a blizzard, where he begins to understand, Ronald Reagan is really serious. Ronald Reagan for all of his anti-communist rhetoric, for all of his hardline, you know, hawkish advisors with which he surrounded himself, despite the fact that he’s presiding over the biggest military, peacetime military build-up in U.S. History, that he really believes he — in his own abilities as a negotiator and that it is in fact possible to reach some sort of working relationship with Moscow.

And in that moment, George Shultz also realizes. He tells me that that invitation to dinner was not social, that Nancy really wanted him to see that, and he also begins to realize he has found a very, very valuable ally in a first lady who understands her husband as no one else in the world does. As Shultz told me, “I always thought anybody with any brains would make friends with the first lady.” The same is true with James Baker, who is the White House chief of staff, who in fact gets the job of White House chief of staff at a time when barely knows the Reagans and is in that job, in large part, because Nancy Reagan wanted him there, and he too finds that she’s a very important ally. And he told me, “You know, she had incredible political instincts, better than his, in my view.” MR. DUFFY: Yeah. She emerges in all eight years of the Reagan presidency in this book as a moderating influence and a number of different touches and choke points, and just to return one minute to relations with the then Soviet Union, Shultz and Nancy formed a kind of partnership that involves another dinner in which Shultz arranges to have the Soviet foreign minister, Andrei Gromyko, meet her almost in bigfoot hawaiian shir tprivate in the White House so that she can pass a kind of message. MS. TUMULTY: It’s a little reception, and at that point, Gromyko, he’s this famously difficult — the foreign minister is difficult to deal with. He’s known as “Grim Grom” and “Mr. Nyet.” So, Shultz arranges for Nancy to be there not at the working lunch itself but at a reception beforehand, and of course, he is — Gromyko is drawn to her. She’s a world-class flirt, and at one point, he takes a glass of cranberry juice off a tray, lifts it to her, and says, “Why is it so hard to get your husband to the negotiating table?” He said, “I think you should whisper ‘peace’ in his ear every night,” and she puts her hands on his shoulders, pulls him down, and she says, “And I will whisper it in your ear too. Peace.” And Gromyko is so taken aback.

He would tell that story many, many times over the years, but Shultz told me afterwards, he went up to Nancy Reagan and said, “Congratulations, Nancy. You just won the Cold War.” MR. DUFFY: Right. And she also was not so keen about some of the hardline rhetoric that both the president and some of his more conservative allies were employing at that time, and she makes that clear as well. MS. TUMULTY: She hates the phrase that he uses in a speech in 1982 where he describes the Soviet Union — I mean 1983 where he describes the Soviet Union as an “evil empire.” She absolutely hates that phrase. Even Reagan writes about it. He said, “Nancy wants me to tone down my rhetoric, but I think it works.” So, Stu Spencer is invited to a dinner right around that time too, and he says over dinner, “The Reagans are still going at it over his use of the phrase ‘evil empire.’” And so, Reagan turns to Stu Spencer and says, “Stu, what do you think?” and he says, “Well, you know, you’re right. They are an evil empire, but I don’t know if I would have put it that way.” And at that point, Reagan cuts him off because he doesn’t want Nancy to have any more ammunition in this argument. And that’s something too. I mean, this is a real married couple. I mean, they have their arguments. They have their arguments in front of other people, but she truly believes in his greatness. She also very much recognizes his vulnerabilities and his flaws, and she believes that she is there, number one, to take care of his physical well-being as his wife but also to keep an eye out and to keep an eye on his back. MR. DUFFY: I think one of the things — we can’t get into all the stuff that’s in this book, but one of the — my favorite chapters are the ones on the raising of the children, Patty and Ron Jr., Ron who you talked to. The book really bigfoot hawaiian shirt benefits from the reporting you have from the — directly from the family, both her son and her stepbrother, Dick, all through it. And you are able to draw really intimate pictures of what they agreed on and disagreed about often in the raising of the children, which we know is never easy.

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